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Thread #243370
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Boris Johnson is facing embarrassing questions over his claims that Russia had produced the Salisbury nerve agent after it emerged that the Foreign Office had deleted a tweet blaming Moscow for the attack.

With the foreign secretary already under pressure over his remarks two weeks ago that a Porton Down scientist had been “absolutely categorical” that the novichok had originated in the country, Jeremy Corbyn accused Johnson of “completely exceeding the information he had been given” after the emergence of the deleted tweet.

The deletion, immediately seized on by the Russian embassy, has deepened the government’s difficulties after British scientists at the UK’s defence research laboratory announced on Tuesday that they had not established that the nerve agent used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal had been made in Russia.

Press to continue:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/04/skripal-poisoning-deleted-foreign-office-tweet-leads-to-awkward-questions
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welp, time to cook up another batch
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This is exactly why Corbyn was saying they should wait for evidence regarding the attack instead of just trying to start shit with Russia...
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>>243370
i imagine it is difficult to determine where a chemical was manufactured at, much less falsely blame russia for it
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Good thing we got rid of that Obama-era hire who was in that office before he could conspire with Hillary to start WW3 against based Russia
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Boris Johnson saying something stupid is the British political equivalent of Trump making a tweet. Not a dumb tweet, just a tweet. The man has had egg in his face so many times he could be confused for an omelet.

In this case it looks like instead of outlining the facts, like the fact that the poison used was novichok, and that while the formula (and thus identification thereof) of novichok is well known it is pretty much only the Russian State that has the ability to actually make the stuff, he just took those facts and then drew the obvious conclusion, which is that Russia did it. But the British state actually doing this is a big step so Boris tripped on his face by using logic.

As far as Boris goes it's actually not that bad of a gaffe.
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>>243558
>and that while the formula (and thus identification thereof) of novichok is well known it is pretty much only the Russian State that has the ability to actually make the stuff
Are you saying the Russians have some magical chemical process that nobody else can imitate?
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>>243566
In actual fact, yes I am.

Designer chemistry is STUPID difficult. It's not just knowing the molecule - getting a specific molecular structure in acceptable volume and purity requires you to find a path to that molecule that, at every step along the way, causes the components to fall into one shape and no other, and then hold that shape without any supervision.

To explain it without actually going into the processes, tailoring chemicals is like building a Lego kit without touching any of the bricks. You can only use careful and precise variations of shaking the box.

It's theoretically possible for someone else to duplicate the process...if they know it.

The manufacturing process, to my understanding, is a closely guarded state secret.
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>>243370
>British scientists at the UK’s defence research laboratory announced on Tuesday that they had not established that the nerve agent used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal had been made in Russia.

And of course it makes no sense for Russia to assassinate this guy, as nobody in the general public even knew who the fuck this guy was until he was assassinated and all the blame not surprisingly immediately fell on Russia.

Putin isn't a dumbass, why would he needlessly bring all that media heat onto Russia? And that being the case, who stands to profit from this assassination? Al the fingers point at the West, who eliminated a guy who was no longer of use to them (have spilled all the beans he had) beyond bring heat on Russia.
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>>243632
"I don’t wish death on anyone, but for purely educational purposes, I have a warning for anyone who dreams of such a career. The profession of a traitor is one of the most dangerous in the world." - Russian State TV

What was the "point" of Mossad going off and assassinating people over Munich well into the 80s? Revenge, plus the demonstration that if you fuck with Israel, Israel will find you, and Israel will kill you. It was a powerful message.
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>>243632
>And of course it makes no sense for Russia to assassinate this guy
How about Litvinenko? Did it make no sense for Russia to assassinate him? Maybe the United Kingdom decided to spend 10 years and twenty million dollars investigating it and "figuring out" that Russia did it even though they did it themselves. You can never trust those perfidious Albions.

There's a simple explanation: the FSB assassinated Russian traitor #173, and an idiotic explanation: the CIA conspired with MI6 and every other Western intelligence agency in the world to murder a British intelligence asset and blame it on Russia. If Putin ordered it, the explanation is simple: Putin ordered it. If the United States ordered it (or ordered complicity in it), the chain of command immediately implodes: was it Mike Pompeo? Gina Haspel? Donald Trump himself? Or is there an entire CIA conspiracy network that exists and engages in foreign assassination plots completely unbeknownst to the people who run the agency?
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>>243636
> What was the "point" of Mossad going off and assassinating people over Munich well into the 80s?

The entire world saw what happened at the Olympics in Munich and the Jews wanted the world to know they exacted revenge on the killers.

But nobody knew who the fuck Sergei Skripal is except a handful of diplomats and media types, until the attempted assassination when it splashed all over the news.

It was of no benefit to Putin to have the guy offed, as the guy had already spilled whatever beans he had and the only result would be more negative media attention on Russia.

I’m not fan of Putin or Russia (2nd generation Polish-American here) but the ONLY people to benefit from this assassination attempt, was Western political leaders opposed to Putin and Russia.

>>243648
> How about Litvinenko?

Different time and situation. Now I’m not saying Russia couldn’t have tried to assassinate Sergei Skripal also only that in this time and situation, there’s no up side for Putin to do so and a whole lot of negative affects.
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>>243716
>But nobody knew who the fuck Sergei Skripal is except a handful of diplomats and media types,
It's a lesson for potential Russian defectors, not for you.

>the ONLY people to benefit from this assassination attempt, was Western political leaders opposed to Putin and Russia.
Well, prior to the assassination, this list of Western political leaders opposed to Putin and Russia didn't include Donald Trump, Angela Merkel, or Emmanuel Macron, and barely included Theresa May. So... Theresa May decided to stage the hoax of the century, and pulled a fast one on all of her allies, because... ???

Russian had gotten away with it before and there's no exceptional reason Putin would think he wouldn't get away with again, especially if the hit had gone off as planned and the two of them had died in their apartment with their bodies found weeks later in an advanced state of decay. And in the end Putin aced the election just fine, so in that regard it hardly hurt him at all.
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>>243717
> It's a lesson for potential Russian defectors, not for you.

Anybody going against the Powers That Be knows that’s a risk they’re taking.

“Ex-CIA director James Woolsey said that if Snowden were convicted of treason, he should be hanged.”

> So... Theresa May decided to stage the hoax of the century, and pulled a fast one on all of her allies, because... ???

What makes you think she even knows what’s going on?

“The Civil Service has been called a 'deep state' by senior politicians in the United Kingdom. Tony Blair said of the Civil Service, "You cannot underestimate how much they believe it’s their job to actually run the country and to resist the changes put forward by people they dismiss as ‘here today, gone tomorrow’ politicians. They genuinely see themselves as the true guardians of the national interest, and think that their job is simply to wear you down and wait you out."

> And in the end Putin aced the election just fine, so in that regard it hardly hurt him at all.

This isn’t about Putin’s election campaign in Russia, it’s about Russia’s standing in the eyes of the world and building a coalition against Putin and Russia.
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>>243722
>Anybody going against the Powers That Be knows that’s a risk they’re taking.
Some powers assassinate more than others.

>What makes you think she even knows what’s going on?
SOMEONE has to know what's going on. I don't know the structure of MI6 very well, but let's look at the CIA:

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/leadership/Org_Chart_Oct2015.JPG/image.jpg

Where does the "deep state" layer begin? Do NONE of the people in this list know what's going on? Or do the people who know consistently commit treason against the United States by conducting operations without their direct superiors knowing? So Director of the CIA has no fucking idea what his organization does? Are oversight bodies like the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the Inspector General of the CIA utterly completely fucking worthless, or are they in on the conspiracy? Who PAYS for it?

You're alleging a conspiracy of extraordinary proportions that requires hundreds of CIA officers to be engaged in outright treason unbeknownst to anyone as opposed to thinking that Putin maybe botched a single job.

>The Civil Service has been called a 'deep state' by senior politicians in the United Kingdom.
But you just said that the beneficiaries involved were "Western political leaders." Do these Western political leaders even know what's going on? Who are they?
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>>243648
>CIA conspired with MI6 and every other Western intelligence agency in the world to murder a British intelligence asset and blame it on Russia
And what would they gain from it apart from fanning the flames further? Putin has a nuke that destroys a land mass the size of texas. Push him enough and he'll use it
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>>243726
> > Anybody going against the Powers That Be knows that’s a risk they’re taking.
> Some powers assassinate more than others.

You can’t be so naive as to think only the “Bad Guys” like Putin assassinate people, are you?

Who overthrew the governments of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya and is trying to overthrow the government of Syria?

> > What makes you think she even knows what’s going on?
> SOMEONE has to know what's going on.

Look at the shit Trump is going thru with the FBI and Republican party undermining him, do you really think Theresa May has the bull by the horns?

> > The Civil Service has been called a 'deep state' by senior politicians in the United Kingdom.
> But you just said that the beneficiaries involved were "Western political leaders."

The leaders aren’t always the ones you voted for…
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>>243730
>You can’t be so naive as to think only the “Bad Guys” like Putin assassinate people, are you?
The United States attempts to assassinate enemies with drones and cruise missiles, but it doesn't clandestinely assassinate political operatives or civilians by standing executive order.

>Who overthrew the governments of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya and is trying to overthrow the government of Syria?
We did. We weren't exactly secretive about it.

>The leaders aren’t always the ones you voted for…
Then they're not "political leaders", are they?

>Look at the shit Trump is going thru with the FBI and Republican party undermining him
Everything that the FBI and Republican Party is doing, SOMEBODY high up knows, and we know who that someone is because he's the person everyone reports to. You might as well claim that KGB has a "deep state" that does all sorts of random shit without Putin knowing.

Your claims of an extraordinary conspiracy require extraordinary evidence, or hell, really, just ANY evidence other than vague allegations that all Western countries are shady; therefore, Russia can't have fucked up.
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>>243730
>everyone does it so it must be okay then

That's the logic a 90s kid would use to try and get you to smoke in an anti-drug commercial.

Step up your game.
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>>243736
>it doesn't clandestinely assassinate political operatives or civilians
That depends on whether terrorist leaders who aren't active combatants can be called political operatives. In international law it's clear-cut, but ethically it's a murky area when they call themselves "resistance leaders" and their terrorist operations can be, through their limited scope, easily reframed as a civil war (cf Hamas, Tamil Tigers, Houthis, PKK -- all of whom can and have had their political-wing leaders assassinated perfectly legally by state militaries according to most international law).

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