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Thread #238446
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sam altman nectome.jpg (163 KB, 862x1024, 1521312582544.jpgiqdb google reposts full
32 year old silicon valley billionaire pays $10000 to have his brain preserved and uploaded to a computer network so he may live forever.
process is 100% fatal.

http://fortune.com/2018/03/14/nectome-preserve-brain-y-combinator-sam-altman/

we serial experiments lain now
>>
i believe this youtube video is appropriate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E
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>>238446

>jew problems
>>
>Paying $10000 to shitpost on 4chan
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I fully support this. I love it when retards kill themselves.
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>>238446
he should build a pyramid
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>>238458
>>238460

>jew problems

please fuck off to jewbook
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>>238446
April 1st is still 2 weeks away.
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>>238446
Only $10000?
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>>238446
what a waste. If your actual conciousness isn't travelling over into it and you actually know YOU are going into a new form, it's just a copy of you memories. An algorithm. Not you, just a copy
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>>238446

dumb prick

that's literally just killing yourself so you could POSSIBLY have a clone of yourself survive forever, it wouldn't even be you
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>>238483
>it wouldn't even be you
well, theres a deep philosophical question.
if one could kill their physical body but perfectly replicate your consciousness, is it still not you?
if the copied consciousness were replicated, were all of those still not be you?
kinda like the ship of theseus question.
>>
the big question is, even if the state of consciousness were to be perfectly replicated, is there adequate computing power to emulate human thought?
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>>238487
his soul would have to go in the machine. which is impossible because souls need blood to become 'life'
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>>238489
Wat
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thats some altered carbon shit yo
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>>238487
you are missing the point. the point is the original instance of you would be dead. you are not living forever, you are going to die. another you will live, yes. but not you.
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>>238497
you are missing the point
same exact philosphical question as the ship of theseus
a new you is created, but in the process the old you is destroyed.
is it a different you or the same you.
i would argue in this case, if they could exactly replicate his mental state and capacity, it is effectively the same person
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>>238487
>kinda like the ship of theseus question
Your missing a major part there. This is like the ship of theseus question except the rudder and mast are missing
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>>238483
>literally just killing yourself so you could POSSIBLY have a clone of yourself survive forever
aside from the possibly part that sounds like an ok thing to do, i feel like i deserve to do a nice thing like that for myself. i'm not selfish (or would this be selfish?)
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>>238511
Itd be cool at the end of your natural life, uploading all wisdom and experience at 75+ years old. Doing it at 30 something feels like a waste
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Without a body, what would the rest of his brain do that is usually used for involuntary or voluntary for that matter body functions? Would that greatly affect the personality? Good or bad? I personally like having wiggle worms on the end of my bendy sticks that I can move around
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>>238512
Because it is. Unless you were just diagnosed with some terminal illness or REALLY think the world is going to end in a couple of weeks, there's no reason to not ride it out and wait for the technology to improve, at the very least.
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>>238500

it would be a copy. but at the same time consciousness is a continuous thing except when it is interrupted. do you die every night when you go to sleep?
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>>238552
Maybe he was diagnosed with some shit like pancreas cancer, then. A bit young, but nothing that never happened before.
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If awareness somehow stays intact, it's going to be terrible, and inescapable for as long as the internet exists. And if now well this guy just killed himself over some ones and zeros on a machine somewhere.

Either way, what a bad decision.
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>>238568
going to sleep doesnt clone who you are
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So, will I be able to download it and mod it?
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>>238616
This man is thinking on a whole other level.
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>>238446
haha deep state corrupt capitalist elites BTFO
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Maybe he wanted to die anyway?
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>>238544
It'd be like being trapped in a sensory deprivation tank forever except worse. You'd probably go insane. Not that it's anything other than an academic issue. Mind uploading is such a pipe dream at this point we're like people from the 15th century looking at da Vinci's flying machine sketches and thinking they'll soon be going to the moon.
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>>238487
>if one could kill their physical body but perfectly replicate your consciousness
That's one of the issues though. Who says they can even partially replicate the consciousness of a living person using electronic bits on a computer system? Scientists haven't even determined exactly how the brain creates our conscious selves, or even if our consciousness manifests only within the brain, so it would be a real leap to claim we are able to truly replicate a person's consciousness.
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This nigga should play SOMA
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>>238446
>CPU time and server bandwith not included
That shit is such a scam.
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>>238487
It isn't, it is at best a personality simulator that appears to respond to questions in a way that a stranger who didn't know you would still be able to tell the difference. Imagine if you took old Tay and fed it your facebook history, would you say that is you because Tay is now mimicking your facebook history? Of course not.

uploading yourself to a computer is the dumbest shit ever.
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He was raised Jewish and is gay.
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>>238446
So this is our Mr. House? Will you side with him or take over The Strip for yourself?
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Altman be praised
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another jew down :)
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>>238777
>lel this rich and successful jew is fulfilling his dream and even though it won't work, hell be dead so it's not like he'll be able to regret it
Meanwhile you're....still a pathetic loser going nowhere.
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>>238778
burn jew burn hahahahah
hope the niggers assfuck him while hes laying out flat on the table
this jew has failed
viva la germany
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>>238786
Germany is a shithole being run by some ugly chick. Let me say that again, Germany's leader is a WOMEN. Germany is being overrun by Brown people. That country is done for.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg29TuWo0Yo
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>>238446
>Yes goy, let us kill you for $10,000 and we will bring you back from the dead and give you eternal life when the technology exists
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>>238446
Jews look for a way around God's law. The Talmud is one example. This another.
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>>238446
>Present day, haha.

>Present TIME! HAHAHAHAHAHA!
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>>238771
Since this isn't a game, he'll probably just be dead. At best the researchers that copied his mind will show it off at some symposium, and then turn it off a year or two later once the grant money dries up.
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>>238446
The closest thing to the notion of uploading a brain would be uploading the connectome, which the name of the company, "Netcome", seems to imply it intends to do.

So far the only complete connectomes are for the roundworm C. elegans, the mouse visual cortex, and bits and pieces of drosophila (fruit fly), aplysia (sea slug), etc. Partial connectomes have been assembled for generic bits of the human visual cortex and parts of the limbic (ie memory) system; the Human Connectome Project exists, but the technology for achieving it is still years or even decades away, like where the Genome Project looked like in the 70s/80s.

A company like this is likely doing a very rough connectome map that basically traces a radiochemical as it winds its way through the circuitry of the brain. The resolution of this connectome is maybe, *at best* (assuming even Netcome has some unpublished engineering breakthrough), by whatever measure, 1/100 of the actual human brain processes. But the commercial marginal cost for this mapping technique would be really cheap -- a few thousand like what they're talking about in this article, sans fixed investment costs (which is why I'd be surprised there wasn't a deposit or investment of several million in the company required beforehand).

By all measure of memories this will store nothing. Nada. Zip. By all measure of consciousness or brain ability, well, even with the full connectome down to the sub-micron we cannot yet simulate even the basic systematic processes of C. elegans, so we are years or even decades away (an "unknown known") from being able to translate the connectome into memories, much less thoughts or sensorimotor responses, or even knowing whether the connectome alone is sufficient to do this for a human.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectome
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627314007338
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>>238927
cont.

In conclusion, Netcome is almost certainly selling Snake Oil, at a level of pseudoscience far outstripping the controversies at other consumer biotechs like 23-And-Me, or dubious quantum computers from D-Wave. Worse yet, here the Snake Oil is lethal, and on audit demonstrably will not deliver on its promises (for one thing wouldn't they be claiming the multi-million-dollar reward for cracking the Human Connectome Project about now?).


What we do know is that work in cryonics in the last three years has come to a point where long-term freezing is no longer Snake Oil. A new technique was able to freeze and unfreeze a mouse and then a rabbit brain in, as far as tested, near-perfect cognitive cognition for long-term storage (hours to days to weeks).

So if this guy wants to test the scientific frontiers for human preservation of his brain and memories, he should put himself up to be the first human attempted at being deliberately frozen and then unfrozen.

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/19877/20160211/cryogenics-entire-rabbit-brain-successfully-frozen-revived-first-time.htm
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It's always the people who most want to live forever who really shouldn't. Does anybody really think an immortal techno-cabal of silicon valley overlords would be a good thing? Anyone fancy King Zuckerberg reigning in perpetuity? I pray that mind uploading is impossible and these people are all forced to return to the dust from whence they came.
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>>238772
Fuck Altman. He can code, but chooses to spend other people's dollars on mints for his breath.

I'm a MF robot, bitches.
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>>238500
No, youre still missing the point YOU are not gona look out of your clones eyes or steer his arms your new twin is, making it meaningless for people who are afraid to die
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check out an old book called angel don't play that HARRP by the inventor of the neurophone, it converts sound directly into brain interpertable electric signals (so a person can hear without ears); implicit is the data could eventually go the other way at least anything actively being thought about. (could brain skimmers tomorrow be like credit card skimmers today?)
re op it's too early, electric signals are lost on death, the physical brain map they might be able to get, then there is data stored in dna, rna, and possibly less understood things.
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>>238993
No, i believe YOU are still missing the point.
if I go unconscious before they kill me and transfer my thoughts perfectly into a 'brain emulator' or whatever, then when it turns on itll still be me 'waking up', presumably i would not think feel or think any differently about anything
nothing will have changed about 'me', only 'me' was transfered from flesh to machine
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>>238993
if you take an engine out of a car and put it in a new one, it may be a new car, but it sure as shit is the same engine
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>>239025
Ask yourself this. What if they don't kill you? There will be two separate instances of "you." The original, still biological you hooked up to the brain scanner, and the digital copy off in some virtual paradise. The original you will still be stuck with your organic body and will not attain the immortality you sought. You will not share in the experiences of your digital copy, and you will ultimately die a natural death. Now, why would this be any different if they killed you immediately after making the copy?
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>>239036
Exactly this.
Each person undergoing this process will die, and remaining people will only interact with a mere copy.

My personal asspull about it is that our consciousness is literally the chaotic electric field produce by the millions of brain synapses firing left and right. So you feel like you're "in your head" because you literally are. Remove that organic chaos and the whole identity evaporates.
Those copies might mimic a human's thoughts, but they won't be or even think they're the originals.
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>>238993
For many people a possible copy of themself isn't really an issue.
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Does the tech even exist yet?
The closest I can imagine him getting with this gimmick is making an AI that claims to be him but is basically a Cleverbot.
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>>238446
>all these poor deluded materialists committing suicide
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>>238929
>near-perfect cognitive cognition
Near perfect is still not enough for me to take that plunge.
>>
using a computer analogy
again the shape of the brain layout is like the schematic of a motherboard
the electrical activity is like the electrical activity in computer ram
then there is a hard-drive somewhere (dna, rna, other ?)
Amnesiac
Radiohead.amnesiac.albumart.jpg
Studio album by Radiohead
Released 5 June 2001
Recorded January 1999 – 2000
Genre
Experimental rock electronica alternative rock
Length 43:57
Label
Parlophone Capitol
Producer
Nigel Godrich Radiohead
Radiohead chronology
Kid A
(2000) Amnesiac
(2001) I Might Be Wrong: Live Recordings
(2001)
Singles from Amnesiac
"Pyramid Song"
Released: 16 May 2001
"I Might Be Wrong"
Released: 4 June 2001
"Knives Out"
Released: 6 August 2001
"You and Whose Army?"
Released: 2001 (promotional)
Amnesiac drugs like those used during surgery interfere with the transcription of electric signal temp data into more permanent storage, so what these drugs target needs to be studied and reverse engineered so the human "harddrive" can be read.
anothor option for future generations would be to pair an ai with a newborn and have them learn and develop together using tech evolved from the old fashion neurophone to link them into a single entity, then the human/ai hybrid will experience the human part's death as something like a stroke, recover, and continue on
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sorry, copy pasted the word amnesiac after searching google so i wouldn't misspell it, didn't expect all the garbage data to be added to it
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>>238489
go back to /x/
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>>239223
>>239224

great album. so dark.
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>>238446

>be 33
>lots of plans
>none in action
>no billions

Wow I'm a loser.
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>>238933

>wake up in the year 2088
>no more Jews on earth
>are Jewish
>find out you were reactivated in the form of a smart-lampshade

kek.
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>>238446
Guess his job is up for grabs. Whatever that was.
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>>239026
That's physically transferring the object, this is physical to digital. dimwit.
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>>238993
People are fucking brainlets and don't understand this simple concept.
I've had this same conversation with teleportation and you wouldn't believe the amount of imbeciles who are incapable of understanding the idea of a recreated clone of themselves which wouldn't have THEIR consciousness, just an identical indistinguishable copy of it.
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>>240795
what about being copied kills you

so like, if i injected nanobots into your brain, and then over the course of ten years they replaced every neuron of your brain with a synthetic copy, when do you die?
.0000000001%?
50%?
100%?

why are you you, if all of your shit is being replaced constantly?

i tend to agree with you that copies of you aren't you, but if the process is slow and you remain "alive" for the whole thing, are you alive or dead?
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>>240795
I assume you told them to watch The Prestige?
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>>240799
>what about being copied kills you
Nothing, but people expect that when they die from natural causes >they< will wake up in the clone, which is dumb as fuck.
If after the copy they dispose of your original body, that's what will kill you.

>every neuron of your brain with a synthetic copy, when do you die?
If you replace cells in your brain, it's still your identity. Your tastes or attitude might change if the replacement cells behave too differently from the originals, but that's like "going through a phase". People change sometimes, after all, and there's plenty of accidents causing brain damage that lead to similar stuff. We don't count these as death (for now).

>why are you you,
Already wrote my idea >>239050
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>>240799
This is both a philosophical and biological question. But unfortunately, our current understanding of the brain is too limited to answer any of this.

My guess is, you would gradually become less and less "you" as the nanobots slowly take over. But it would be impossible to define a specific threshold where you transition from being you to not you, just as we can't unanimously agree on when a fetus become a person right now.

>>240809
I've never heard of the movie but the synopsis sounds interesting
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>>240814
>I've never heard of the movie but the synopsis sounds interesting
Watch it if you can, it literally tackles the question you talked about (plus it's batman vs wolverine with david fucking bowie).
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What if they created a system that has you synced up to the copy of yourself, where you DO have control of you and the copy at the same time?

Would you skip the body death and shitpost from your physical and internet-tethered self?
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>>238446
>we serial experiments lain now

Keep in mind, if a major news outlet is openly talking about this, that means the tech has been around for 10-20 years.

Say....roughly around the time The Matrix came out? That movie being what sci-fi comics were for growing anti-gravity/UFO tech in the 40s?
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This thread is dickbutts. I actually read the article, the guy does not intend to "live forever" as a result of this process, nor is the company pitching that.
You all keep drinking the retard koolaid tho.
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>>238446
Does this absolute retard know that what survives forever is just a digital copy of you rather than your own consciousness?
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>>238487
It's not you.It may be the same but it won´t be you thats living through it
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>>238446
A simulation of you, regardless of how accurate, is not you. Think of all the people who have rebuilt the Titanic in Minecraft, as well as in super advanced physics engines. The original is still there at the bottom of the ocean.

I mean, if we actually had the tech to make it work, I could see doing this as a way to carry on your will, if you were on your deathbed, or if it didn't kill you in the process. Better than gaining "immortality" by writing a novel I suppose. But beyond that...

Also this reeks of fake click-bait news. How would this even be legal? Especially in the US?
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>>238474
for every instant there is a past copy of yourself before it moron
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>>238446
fuck this click bait buillshit.
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>>242703
literally a promotional compaigne for this assholes brand and company, read behind the story, thought this was chan, not some fucking sheep farm.
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>>241590
>How would this even be legal? Especially in the US?

Its considered doctor assisted suicide and that's legal in a couple states iirc
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>>242707
Gotta be in hospice status before you can qualify for that.
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>>239050
>is literally the chaotic electric field produce by the millions of brain synapses firing left and right.

More likely on the atomic scale I would imagine. Probably how memory works to some extent, 1's and 0's on the atomic level.
>>
So suppose he is 90+ when he dies, will his consciousness be senile and retarded even in digital form? If so then what even is the point unless you sacrifice the last few decades of your life.
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>>244952
Well, I suppose the advantage to a digital consciousness, is that it's much easier to clean out digital beta-amyloid brain plaque, than it is to do the same with a biological one, since you can just use the search/replace feature.
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>>239025
>if I go unconscious before they kill me and transfer my thoughts perfectly into a 'brain emulator' or whatever, then when it turns on itll still be me 'waking up', presumably i would not think feel or think any differently about anything
>nothing will have changed about 'me', only 'me' was transfered from flesh to machine

No. It would be a new "you" thinking it just went unconscious and successfully went into the machine but the real (you) died as a part of the process.

Do the same thought experiment but this time you are awake during the process. Can there be two You's at the same time? No. You are either the flesh you or there is a new you which is digital.

You can't have "two" awarenesses and consciousnesses. You are either the new you or the old.

The original died so a new digital one could be created. The digital would probably insist that it was the original you and the process went by without death of the original consciousness because for the digital copy, it probably just felt like going to sleep and waking back up, just not on the operating table but in some strange new digital world.

The original would simply go to sleep, and then die, and its original consciousness with it.
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>>238656
Exactly and this retarded it's volunteering. What is everyone's problem with this again?
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>>245229
If people want to sacrifice themselves for science, more power to them. We might actually learn some things thanks to their contributions.

I was just saying, they are really putting the cart before the horse. The technology for this doesn't quite exist yet, and the guy in the article is counting on advancements not yet made. They may not be able to achieve the simulation of consciousness they're pursuing.
As some are arguing also, it may not be a contingent consciousness either, you might not 're-awaken" in a new cyber brain, but merely die and have your brain replicated like a digital clone.
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>>238457
This is a steal if your a senior
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>>238446

These discussions give me anxiety out the ass
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>>238447
>would you like to continue

Eh
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>>238446
this makes me think back to soma. fucking scary
>>
Keep in mind it's fake news.

May one day be a real issue though.
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>>238446
So what happens when the power goes out. Oops.
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>>238487
No. Because at the end of the day a machine is not living and can only compute information. Thus the information is an imitation. You're really gone.
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>>239171
Even if it was perfect, if your ass has to die to make the copy, the copy is simply numbers. You're gone and not in that copy. Now, if they could replicate an image of your current brain so that a different machine could "mold it back" to a save point before one's head got bonked on, that'd be cool. But this whole transferring consciousness thing, especially through a machine is so unrealistic. It'd just be data that represents who you were. Even if it evolved, it's still just data and you're not experiencing it. Better off just going to the occult than wasting so much time on something that ultimately wouldn't accomplish anything.

>>240814
The fetus is a person at its inception. The intent and will of a life is what makes it grow.
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>>245280
As opposed to a living machine that can only compute information?

I mean, he is really gone, but if you could simulate an entire brain and body, cell by cell, and provide sufficient virtual stimulus to stop it from going comatose, it'd process and respond to information the same way you would.

It's still not you though, anymore than any other simulated object is that real world object, regardless of how accurate the simulation.
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>>245230
>As some are arguing also, it may not be a contingent consciousness either, you might not 're-awaken" in a new cyber brain, but merely die and have your brain replicated like a digital clone.
Well, it's either that or soul transmigration actually exists, so you already know the answer.
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>>245287
>The fetus is a person
to the trash it goes
>>
Did anyone ITT having a discussion read the article? Because from the content of your posts, I can safely assume you did not.
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>>239025
No, YOU wont be waking up, in fact YOU wont be doing anything since you're dead.
The replicated you only exists for those around you.
They will think its you, but since your existence is being defined by yourself and not the people around, this is effectively pointless.
>>
how can someone be smart enough to make a billion dollars yet not smart enough to realize it won't be him just a copy
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>>238655
until other consciousnesses join you but the communication bandwidth between you is so large that you merge consciousness, now you are different but alone again
>>
>>238778
but isn't it even a bit entertaining to be alive. What the hell will an AI do when it runs out of new information to experience in the universe, go insane?
>>
>>239050
ok
trans humanism
you add extra processing power and memory to your existing brain
sooner or later you spend more and more time using these outside of brain services or areas
your old brain shrivels up to being useless
have you transferred consciousness?
>>
Feels good that billionaires are just as afraid of death as I am.
>>
>>238446
If this technology was actually feasible I would be terrified of doing it myself. Imagine if something went wrong or someone decided to fuck you over- you could be trapped in an unending cycle of torture for all eternity. Or be trapped in empty space forever with nothing but your consciousness.

Makes me happy that i will be dead.
>>
>>245450
There was a recent X-files episode (Season 11 episode 2) about this very concept happening.

People considered to have the best and brightest minds volunteered to have their brains downloaded into a secret computer system when they died. It turns out to be similar to "The Matrix" with their minds being used for slave labor.
>>
>>238500
you are missing the point of the ship of theseus if you think that paradox applies here.

the guy in the op isn't having his brain slowly replaced piece by piece with computer parts while maintaining his consciousness. the guy is letting his brain die, embalming it, and hoping at some point in the future someone uses it as a model to create an entirely new model altogether. there is no single preserved chain of consciousness in this case.
>>
>>245425
that couldn't possibly occur until the heat death of the universe hundreds of trillions of years from now.

you can play tetris multiple times and each new round is a new experience.
>>
>>238656
Then this experiment would seem to prove that Consciousness is unable to be transferred to a computer. does this say that Consciousness is not an electronic component of the human mind?
Or at least that the computer is unable to process the human mind. And since when have we possessed this technology to be able to do this sort of transfer anyway? I swear this whole fucking day's been about transhumanism.
>>
>>245492
Once you've decoded the inner workings of the physics, and expanded your intellect far beyond unaided human capacity, the combinations you can get out of four forces and thirteen particles might get a little stale. It may get to be like Minecraft is to us after awhile - no need to explore when you know all you're going to see is combinations of the same old blocks, over and over again.

But yes, if that becomes a real problem, you can either setup your own virtual world that relies of more complex rules that'll take you longer to get sick of... Or simply delete some of what you know and experience it all anew.
>>
>>245430
That's probably the trait best defining 'human'.
>>
>>238487
theres a scene in the sixth day, and arnold movie- where a clone of one character murders their own clone. An important aspect of the self is agency for oneself. The new ship does not care about, or doesnt have to care about the old ship.

In this story, funny enough, the clone is killing it's original.
>>
>>245504
>Then this experiment would seem to prove
Um, they haven't even done it yet anon.
Does anyone read the articles?
>>
>>238489
what
>>
>>238446
Why not just use the dragon balls?
>>
>>238508
Wouldn't be appropiate to say that the memories and let's call it brain can be considered as the mast since they are in it's physical form electrical impulses??
>>
Wow you brainlets didn't even read the article. He literally just signed up to be cryogenically frozen.
>>
>>245615
We're past the fucking article and discussing the technology he's waiting for, autismo.
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>>245617
>Retards speculating on what tech can do after potentially thousands of years of development.

You're fucking retarded if you wouldn't pay for cryonics insurance.
>>
>>245625
It's a sizable chunk of money for some untested theory that could instead be going towards your grandchildren's education or something else more realistically worthwhile.

How many years in storage does 10k actually get you? It costs me almost 60 a month for a 5x5 and thats without temp control.
>>
>>245614
>>238487
the only way this works (as a ship of theseus) is if you gradually replace the organic components of the brain overtime with non-organic/artificial components, such that there's a chain-of-continuity.

replacing everything at once (even if you've got the same memories) isn't a ship-of-Theseus.
>>
He (or rather his digital copy) won't be so happy when 4chan trolls hack his network and put him in Hell
>>
>>239224
LOL I was just wondering what that was about

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